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31

January 2017

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COMMENTS

Knight Foundation Report, Gimlet Cancels Undone, NYT Daily News Pod

Written by , Posted in Hot Pod Weekly

The Knight Foundation has a new report out on podcasts, titled “From Airwaves to Earbuds: Lessons from Knight Investments in Digital Audio and Podcasting.” It was published last Thursday, and you can access it as a PDF or read it off Medium.

The report is the product of research done on the learnings gleaned from the various on-demand audio-related investments made by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation — of which there are quite a few. Indeed, the foundation is strikingly ubiquitous as a funder of the space through programmatic grant support, particularly among projects that lie at the nexus of public media and podcasts. Among its beneficiaries are: Gimlet Media, RadioPublic, Radiotopia, and NPR One (originally called Project Carbon).

“It was clear to us that podcasting was beginning to meaningfully gain traction as a way to provide audiences with informative audio content,”  said Sam Gills, the foundation’s VP of Learning and Impact, when we spoke over the phone this week. “I believe that one of the more important things private philanthropy can do is to give risk capital to innovative ventures… We felt that’s the best thing we can do to support the field, and we hope that a lot of what we’ve learned can be useful to others entering the space.”

While the report’s focus on the foundation’s investments renders its scope somewhat limited, the issues that it ends up exploring is nonetheless pretty wide — and fairly comprehensive, I’d argue, as far as the key narratives of the space are concerned.

Longtime Hot Pod readers probably won’t be surprised by much of its findings. Among the salient issues discussed: diversity (still challenged), talent (the brain drain is real), finances (podcasting still doesn’t pay the bills for most independents and freelancers), technological infrastructure (still undercooked), data (still a mish-mash), and of course, talk of a podcasting bubble (yes and no, a respondent notes). But there are some genuine gems to be found in the details — a close read reveals mention of what appears to be WNYC’s mobile podcast discovery play, called Discover (which I’m told was quietly launched on the station’s website two months ago, and they’re laying low for now), among others.

I asked Gill if he was surprised by anything contained in the research. He pointed out two things: (1) the extent to which broadcast publishers seem to genuinely embrace podcasting as a “green field for experimentation,” and perhaps more notably, (2) how self-conscious the industry seems to be in terms of how much more work needs to be done to improve the space overall. To Gill, that self-consciousness is productive.

“There’s no clear way to run a podcast business [at this point in time],” Gill said. “So what we’re seeing is a moment where everyone is very open, and which creates incentives to get really creative.”

For what it’s worth, I think I agree with that.

Art19 strikes up a distribution partnership with iHeartRadio. The partnership will give shows hosted on the Art19 the opportunity to be distributed through the broader iHeartRadio infrastructure, which includes apps for mobile devices, connected car dashboards, and various digital media players. This marks iHeartRadio’s second partnership with a podcast hosting platform in recent months. In July, a similar arrangement was announced between the internet radio company and Libsyn.

It should be noted that shows won’t automatically appear on iHeartRadio’s by virtue of simply being hosted on Art19. They must opt-in for inclusion, the same way shows have to submit their feeds to iTunes to get listed. “I would, however, stress that iHeart is not re-hosting ART19 podcasts nor are they running any audio ads in or around them,” Art19 CEO Sean Carr asserted over email last week. “Essentially, iHeart is operating just like any other podcatcher, except they are shipping much better data to us.”

Of course, the question we should be asking about iHeartRadio isn’t really about the data its players are able to give podcast companies, but about the amount of listenership it’s able to give publishers. iHeartRadio reportedly has over 95 million registered users, though it’s always worth noting that the number of monthly active users — the key metric — remains unclear. Furthermore, it should be remembered that iHeartRadio’s business is largely driven through live-streams, the digital adaptation of the broadcast experience, which leads me to wonder about how much on-demand listening is actually happening off the iHeartRadio infrastructure, and as such the actual value of this partnership. Sure, the iHeartRadio-Libsyn press release back in July noted that podcast listening on the former platform has grown 58% in the past year, but percentages are tricky things without the base number. (A source tells me that “a sizable amount” of iHeartRadio users are listening to podcasts, but that’s not much to go on, even if that’s true.)

Whatever podcast listening may be happening on the platform, iHeartRadio nonetheless continues its steady creep towards the medium. This news comes after the company hired its first SVP for Podcasting back in November (Chris Peterson, formerly a content partnership manager at TuneIn), which is a sign of things to come — and perhaps a new era where iHeartRadio is taking the format seriously with a clear strategy intact. It also comes after a couple of experiments with the format, including a peculiar branded podcast partnership with the co-working space company WeWork. All of this really begs the question: what’s happening here?

Carr offers a clue. When we traded emails last week over this story, he noted: “Their aim is to become a premiere destination for podcast listening, and they want to be both publisher friendly and take a leadership role in propelling the industry forward.”

Don’t we all.

Three more things, quickly:

  • Art19 is a member of Syndicated Media’s partner program. (For more info on that, check out this column.)

  • I asked Carr if he thinks these partnerships with iHeartRadio — which, in my mind, adheres to the likely convergence between on-demand audio and the larger digital audio universe — might ultimately change the value proposition and economics of the podcast industry. “We certainly hope so,” he replied. “In my mind, it’s a simple equation. Better data will increase agency dollars flowing into the space. That will support the creation of more quality content, and that is great for consumers.”

  • I imagine we’re going to see a lot more partnerships like this, from Art19 and competitors like Megaphone and Libsyn, in the very near future.

WNYC announces the third edition of its annual women in podcasting festival, “Werk It.” This year’s festivities will take place at the Ace Hotel in Los Angeles on October 3-5. In addition to standard sessions, the festival will feature a one-day “Podcast Bootcamp” intensive for entry-level or early-career audio producers. The list of presenters include: Anna Sale, of WNYC’s Death, Sex, and Money; Jennifer White, of WBEZ’s Making Oprah; Lisa Chow, of Gimlet’s Startup, and Jessica Williams and Phoebe Robinson, of WNYC’s 2 Dope Queens.

Early registration is now open on the event website, and folks interested in pitching a session can do so here. I’m also told that there will be scholarships available.

Gimlet cancels Undone. The podcast revisiting major news events of the past, which was hosted by Radiolab alum Pat Walters, ran for seven episodes across its first and only season. Gimlet confirms that Walters will continue on with the company as an editor, working on both current and upcoming projects. No official word on what will happen to the show’s other two producers, Julia DeWitt (a Snap Judgment alum) and Emanuele Berry, but I presume they will be reallocated within the company as well.

This is the third time that Gimlet has pulled the plug on a project that’s been out in the open. The first, as you might remember, was Starlee Kine’s Mystery Show, which took place under fairly chaotic circumstances and triggered an outcry that risked the company’s scrappy and transparent image, and the second is Sampler, which was cancelled in October. As for the reason, here’s the key section from Gimlet’s official statement on Undone’s cancellation:

Undone was performing well, but the show requires a very particular kind of editorial support, and as we got into the first season, it became clear that as of right now, we don’t have everything we need for it to keep growing and experimenting and finding its way. Gimlet is a start-up. Some things we try are going to continue on for a long time. And some things won’t.

When I followed up, asking if the decision was less about the show itself and more about the current state of the company, a spokesperson replied:

Actually, the decision was more so centered around the talent squeeze we’re seeing in the industry overall. Hiring the particular editorial staff we needed to meet the vision for Undone was tough in this market. Right now, there is a shortage of seasoned audio editors with deep experience making complex narrative stories. By not being able to provide the required editorial support, we were unable to continue the show in a sustainable way.

The explanation here is somewhat resonant with what I’ve been increasingly hearing from other companies and teams: that there is shortage of seasoned talent in general and of seasoned editors in specific. The editor shortage has long been a topic of concern in this newsletter; long-time readers might recall the Poynter column last summer written by NPR editorial specialist (and former Nieman fellow) Alison MacAdam warning of an editor crisis, and the subsequent interview I ran with MacAdam. This problem seems to have only grown more salient over time — my inbox is often filled with requests for talent referrals, and I imagine that the public radio-to-private podcasting brain drain can only go on for so long before the public media pool runs out of bodies.

The need for talent, I think, marks one of the more significant differences between audio and every other medium as they pertain to digital enablement: one could argue that other digital mediums have principally exploded due to those mediums being able to derive strong metric outcomes from relatively low resource investments (which is to say, cheap talent). One could further posit that the quality barrier for acceptable consumption within on-demand audio is high — relative to web text, broadcast radio, digital video — which means that experience and talent are uniquely crucial to moving the needle for any given podcast operation and for the industry as a whole. A lack of experienced talent or even a clustering of them, then, is detrimental to the health of the ecosystem overall.

Anyway, this is all not to say Undone’s fate is purely the product of conditions external to itself. After all, if the show was hitting its marks, it would be a dumb idea to shut it down even with a shortage of editorial talent. Podcast measurements being what they are, it’s hard to precisely tell how well the show performed, but the fact that it didn’t quite traffick in the upper echelons of the iTunes charts as consistently as its cohort peers, Homecoming and Crimetown, is notable. And frankly, even though I enjoyed a good deal of the episodes, I did think the show’s lack of market differentiation was its defining issue. Its premise — revisiting news stories of the past — is a remarkably common conceit deployed among public radio podcasts, whether explicit (like NPR’s Embedded) or otherwise (how many times has that premise driven an episode on Radiolab and This American Life?), and one gets the sense that any of those stories told on Undone could very well be at home in a number of other shows. Stuff like that, I think, really matters, especially as the podcast ecosystem becomes more saturated with new entrants.

On the bright side, from the looks of the Undone Facebook page, the company seems to be managing the cancellation more effectively than the last time.

In other news, ABC has given a pilot order to the TV adaptation of Gimlet’s Startup, according to Deadline. Not huge, but a positive step forward for the project. (For more information about that, check out this Hot Pod from back in September.)

The New York Times set to debut the new Michael Barbaro show tomorrow. Barbaro was previously the host of the organization’s election podcast, The Run Up, in his capacity as a political reporter for the paper. He moved to the audio team full-time in December. As I suspected when the Times first hired former All Things Considered supervising producer Theo Balcomb, this new project will indeed be a daily news show, described to be functionally analogous to morning email briefings. Episodes are described to be 15 to 20 minutes long a piece, each covering 2 to 4 segments. They will drop into feeds at 6am ET on the weekdays. And of course, it will also be distributed over Alexa and Google Home.

The show will be called The Daily, and BMW will serve as the launch sponsor.

There’s also a text message component to the project, where Barbaro will keep subscribers in the news loop via SMS throughout the day. It sounds, uh, pretty intimate, but I suppose you could consider it an example of push notification plus. (“To text with Michael,” the press release wrote, “listeners can sign up here.”)

My buddies over at Nieman Lab have a piece up that gives good background on the project, including the organization’s previous attempt at daily news pod — way back in 2006! — and a good overview of the very thin spread of existing daily news-related pods. Anyway, I’m excited to see how it shapes up, but here are three design questions I’m keeping in mind:

  • How will the show buck or appropriate the conventions of radio shows that trade in daily news? Will it evoke a similar feel to All Things Considered, or will it attempt to consciously challenge that format? And will such attempts to challenge be distracting?

  • How the show handles pacing, given its brief 15-20 minute structure, will be interesting to watch. How will show convey momentum, and how will it balance between moving through stories and pausing for moments?

  • What will the show’s take on the anchor be? That is, how important is Barbaro’s personality to the hosting apparatus, and what is the emotional baseline that the show will try to convey?

I guess I’m also curious about The Daily’s target demo. As Nieman Lab’s tweet on the matter suggested, could this be a swipe at potential public radio audiences? I put the question to the Times, and got a reply from Balcomb that sounds a lot like Matthew McConaughey from those car commercials:

We know there is a giant audience for this show. It’s for anyone who wants to understand the news of the day. For me, I’m making this show for the enthusiastic, news-hungry person who wants to know what’s going on in the world but doesn’t have a way in right now. Because the news isn’t where they want, when they want it.

Listeners will come to rely on this show. It’s the length you want and can handle every morning. And it’s conversational — real people talking to each other as they actually talk — while still featuring the best journalists in the world. This is for people on the go, people who live on their phones. This is for people who want to engage with reporters who actually break stories and live their beats.

Oookay.

True crime pods continues to flourish, even at a small station. Current has a handy profile up of Suspect Convictions, a show developed out of a partnership between independent journalist Scott Reeder and northwestern Illinois-based station WVIK, which covers the Quad Cities. The podcast has reportedly clocked in over 600,000 downloads since launching at the beginning of January, and has been hovering pretty consistently in the upper echelon of the iTunes charts.

Two bits that stood out to me from the article:

  • The station isn’t expecting tons of revenue from the show, according to the station’s general manager, Jay Pearce. “Under the station’s agreement with Reeder, it only has rights to sell local sponsorships for the show.” Fascinating.

  • Pearce “intends to look for other partners in the community to create additional podcasts, especially on local subjects that could interest listeners outside of Northwest Illinois.”

Do check out the whole article.

After the Trump administration’s chaotic first week, I’m reupping my column from last summer: “Can a political podcast avoid being overtaken by events?” At the time, I was trying to think through the bananas 2016 election cycle, which seemed to churn out controversies in a brisk, staccato clip. Those days seem quaint now, as the sheer abundance of the Trump presidency’s first ten days — with its rapid-fire signings of executive orders and ever-expanding number of complex issues involved — further accentuates the core weaknesses of the way political coverage is currently delivered through the podcast format. Back then, I was specifically referring to podcasts that adopt the weekly recap discussion format, but at this point, it really does feel applicable to just about everything else.

I wrote: “With every episode, the discussion produces a model for the listener that helps guide their reading of the news, and like all models, they are forced into iteration by every future development. As a result, the discussion in those episodes — frozen as they are in time — exist with built-in half-lives; their value erodes, organically, as more new things happen.”

At the rate this administration is going, weekly political podcast episodes have a remarkably high chance of being rendered irrelevant even before they hit feeds. Further compounding the problem is the fact that, from the looks of it, the high-octane news environment is only going to worsen in volume and complexity over time — a state of affairs that would likely make it very difficult to communicate the news with appropriate proportionality, focus, and depth.

I’m tempted to think that deploying a cool and sober approach to presentation might be an appropriate way to solve this problem of issue abundance, but I’m not entirely sure about current conditions would necessarily allow for that. The recent years has seen an increasing rebellion against news presented by a voice of authority — presenting a view from nowhere — in favor of more personality-driven, supposedly human conversational styles. Within that latter paradigm, a cool and sober approach would be deficient. However, the problem that arises from this is that the tone and emotional performance becomes an incredibly important editorial variable to convey severity, synonymous with the size of a headline or the text of a chyron.

There is, in my mind, a surreal disconnect when that isn’t fully considered. That informational uncanny valley is pretty present in shows like, say, Pod Save America or the Washington Post’s Can He Do That?, where the political horrors being examined are considerably undercut by off-hand jokes or spritely uses of music. (I haven’t fully figured out where I come down on Pod Save America. It’s been nonetheless fascinating to observe, though; often feeling like it’s balancing talk radio pageantry with being on the verge of a nervous breakdown.)

I’m still working through this idea, but I’ll say one more thing: I can’t think of any show that handles tone in this news environment better than On The Media, whose recent string of episodes conjure an emotional space so sophisticated that it allows for both horror and process.

One more thing: I’m updating the public radio to private podcasting spreadsheet. It was explicitly cited in the Knight report, and I’ve gotten a few requests for an update. This baby hasn’t been edited since January 2016 — a full year — which means there’s a lot of catching up to do, I think?

You can find the spreadsheet here, and you can suggest names here. I’ll add them as soon as I vet them.

Bites. 

  • Heads up, business journalists with audio work: The Society of American Business Editors and Writers’ Best in Business 2016 awards has an audio category, and the deadline is February 7. (SABEW)
  • In case you missed it, First Look Media’s The Intercept has rolled out the first episode of its new podcast, Intercepted. Jeremy Scahill hosts. Its First Look’s third podcast overall, following Politically Re-Active and Maeve in America, and the show continues the organization’s political focus. All three shows are listed in iTunes as resulting from a partnership with Panoply. (iTunes)
  • Meanwhile, in Australia: the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, the country’s national public broadcaster, has launched a TV campaign promoting its podcasts.
  • NPR One has hit half a million “regular listeners,” apparently. (Michael Oreskes’ Twitter)
  • As always, you can find a curated list of upcoming podcasts here. And let me know if you’d like to add to it.

Tuesday

21

June 2016

0

COMMENTS

The Brooklyn NewFronts, Revisionist History, More on Branded Pods

Written by , Posted in Hot Pod Weekly

Oh geez. So much happened while I was out. This week’s column will be more of a rundown than usual. Let’s get to it.

Fact Sheet. I’m all about those 30,000 feet views. Last week, the Pew Research Center published its much-respected State of the News Media 2016 report, a dependable resource of material for media nerds to geek out over. Like previous versions, this year’s report comes with a dedicated Podcasting section, and for the most part it does a pretty good job of providing a snapshot of the industry at this point in time. Interested podcast-oriented readers should also pay attention to the section on Public Broadcasting, which digs into NPR’s current dynamics pretty well and digs up some handy data points to boot.

I highly recommend checking both sections out, but I just wanted to make a quick note: this is presumably the report that many newcomers and unfamiliar media analysts will turn to — and the one that future podcast entrepreneurs will cite in pitch decks — for a clean, clear description of the state of the podcast industry in the months to come. It is important, then, to note the many quirks of the report, including its utilization of Libsyn data to chart out the scale of podcast hosting and downloads — which does not account for the volumes of hosting and downloads that take place on premium platforms like Art19, Megaphone, and whatever public radio stations use — as well as its perpetuation of the ZenithOptimedia $34 million dollar estimated ad spend for the medium in 2015, the problem of which I discussed in my last column.

Anyway, the Pew report wasn’t the only high-level overview of the podcast industry that came out over the past few weeks. The independent tech analyst Ben Thompson also recently published a very, very solid assessment on his Stratechery blog, which you should absolutely peruse if you haven’t already. His reading of the medium’s history is consistent with my own, and it even comes with an interesting — and possibly very complicated — alternate path for the industry to go down in the months to come.

The New, New Front. “We wanted to make it feel scrappy,” said Chris Giliberti, Gimlet’s Chief of Staff, when we spoke over the phone last week. “There are companies in the digital media world that aren’t just focused on scale — some are also focused on building deep connections with their audiences, some concentrate on making their artisanal media more premium.”

Giliberti is describing the impetus behind the Brooklyn NewFronts, a new digital media industry event that took place for the first time last Tuesday. This inaugural edition saw Gimlet present its upcoming slate of programming alongside a few other up-and-coming digital media companies: the Lena Dunham-branded publication Lenny, the travel curiosity site Atlas Obscura, the annotation platform Genius, and the Hearst-powered Snapchat channel Sweet. (All five companies contributed to the organization of the event.)

Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to attend the event despite the fact it took place in Genius’ offices — a mere ten minute walk from my apartment/kitchen office — as I’m unexpectedly West Coast-based for the summer, but I’m told that it was a fairly stripped down, focused affair. Politico Media described it as “a sort of lower-budget, smaller-scale, cool-kid version of the Digital Content NewFronts,” which I guess squares with the whispers I’ve been getting. (Interestingly enough, the Digital Content Newfronts can probably also be described as a smaller-scale, cool-kid version of the traditional TV upfronts — though, given the fact that the scale and spectacle of that NewFront seem to be growing year over year, one could expect the prestige hierarchies to flip soon enough.) An upfront, for the uninitiated, is best described as an industry event that typically features publishers presenting their upcoming wares in a move to drum up interest among ad buyers.

It should be noted that Tuesday’s alt-Front isn’t the first upfront event to feature podcast programming. The past twelve months have already seen two other podcast-oriented upfronts: one organized by the Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB), and another put together by a consortium of public radio organizations (involving NPR, WNYC, and WBEZ).

But what Gimlet’s doing here is interesting. Train your focus on what the company is trying to do by grouping itself within Lenny, Atlas Obscura, Genius, and Sweet. By lumping themselves in with these digital media companies working within relatively trusted mediums, Gimlet is effectively taking advantage of a halo effect generated by companies those buzz and narratives are tied almost solely to its editorial brand and substance as opposed to their distribution technologies — which is, unfortunately, a narrative burden that still handicaps much of the conversation around most other podcast companies. Instead of drawing overtly attention to its nature as a podcast company, Gimlet appears to be focusing  the conversation purely on its programming and brand, two clear areas of focus where the company knows it can win.

It’s a smart move. Hopefully, it pays off.

The New Gimlet Shows. So what new pods did Gimlet trot out at the dog and pony show? Some we already know, others we don’t. Here’s the lineup:

  1. A true crime show developed with the creators of HBO’s “The Jinx”;
  2. “Twice Removed,” a genealogy-oriented show by author AJ Jacobs — known for his books documenting his life experiments, like “The Year of Living Biblically” — which will explore connections between two disparate people;
  3. “Heavyweight,” the latest project by Wiretap’s Jonathan Goldstein, which will presumably feature his trademark use of autobiography and literary writing;
  4. “Afterwards” (working title), a show that will take a fresh look at the events of the past (not unlike, perhaps, Panoply’s newly launched project with Malcolm Gladwell; and
  5. Science Vs,” the science pod that Gimlet acquired from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

Full Court Press. Last week was a busy one for Panoply, which rolled out the first episode of “Revisionist History,” its big-swing project with author (and general man-about-town) Malcolm Gladwell. The Graham Holdings-owned podcast company appeared to lean hard on Gladwell’s celebrity to establish a strong promotional circuit involving spots on “CBS This Morning,” CBC’s “Q with Shadrach Kabango,” and the Recode Media podcast. The buzz around Gladwell’s podcast, which pushed it up to the number one spot on the iTunes hotness chart (where it remains at this writing), also scored Panoply a Bloomberg profile.

(Disclaimer: Panoply was once my day-job employer.)

That Bloomberg profile, by the way, provides some meaty details on Panoply’s internal expectations around the podcast. Note the following quote:

[Matt] Turck [Panoply’s Chief Revenue Officer] predicts that Revisionist History could draw over 500,000 downloads per episode, with Gladwell providing star power and Apple giving support. That would match the best performance of The Message… “I don’t know if there will ever be another Serial, anything that explosive,” said Turck. “But boy we’ve stacked the deck to give it a run for the money.”

Panoply’ll have to set their sights a little further if they really intend to give Serial a run for its money, of course. 500,000 downloads per episode, as either projected goal or realized performance, simply won’t put Revisionist History anywhere close to being “the next Serial.” When Serial’s second season was closing up its final week, the team’s community editor Kirsten Taylor told me that each episode had consistently enjoyed around 3 million downloads on its launch week throughout the season.

Speaking of Panoply... It look like they’re developing a podcast project with First Look Media, the Pierre Omidyar-backed news organization. The project, “Politically Re-active,” which features comedians W. Kamau Bell and Hari Kondabolu — regulars on the public radio circuit and its podcast descendents — will explore basic, fundamental questions pertaining to the 2016 US presidential elections.

This partnership with Panoply marks First Look Media’s first foray into audio, serving as a continuation of its multi-brand, multi-platform strategy that’s included The Intercept, the Glenn Greenwald-fronted national security journalism site, and Reported.ly, its socially-distributed news organization focused on human rights and social justice. First Look Media has also started dabbling in film, acting as a producing partner on the Academy Award-winning Spotlight.

Crisis Narrative. Add yet another thread to public radio’s growing existential crisis narrative: the fact that a generation of established talent is steadily aging out, which The Wall Street Journal’s Ellen Gamerman observes using the retirement of Prairie Home Companion’s Garrison Keillor as the hook.

“Some of the biggest radio stars of a generation are exiting the scene while public-radio executives attempt to stem the loss of younger listeners on traditional radio,” Gamerman wrote, before describing how NPR is grappling with slowing the loss of younger listeners over the radio and how its member station-reliant business model is under threat from the competition generated by emerging podcast companies that complicate its attempts to transition into digital.

If you’re keeping tabs on the growing body of public radio existential crisis literature, here’s a quick list of the other incidents that have inspired this narrative: (1) NPR CEO’s Jarl Mohn summer 2015 incident during his visit to the organization’s New York bureau, which served as the catalyzing event for Politico’s “Can NPR seize its moment?” article, the first of this genre; (2) the NPR Memo kerfuffle; and (3) WBAA’s decision to stop syndicating This American Life citing mission-based disagreement over the latter’s partnership with Pandora, later reversed.

And speaking of that NPR Memo kerfuffle, Gamerman’s piece contains a detail that sheds a little more light on the thinking behind the policy, highlighted by the infamous memo to hold on promoting NPR One over broadcast: according to an NPR spokeswoman, VP of News Programming and Operations Chris Turpin “doesn’t want hosts to promote NPR One until all local stations are represented on the app.” Interesting! (Update: NPR’s senior director of media relations Isabel Lara reached out to say that the Journal had misquoted her when she relayed Turpin’s point. “He never said that ‘ALL stations’ needed to be part of NPR One before we could promote it on the air,” she wrote. “The point that I was trying to make… is that we are encouraging stations to participate because our goal is to make the national/local listener experience better and better.” I’ll follow up next week.)

Meanwhile, NPR appears to be looking for a new product manager to work on podcasts and social. (I had initially thought that this hire would work alongside Mathilde Piard, who had been the organization’s product manager working podcasts but has since evolved into a more general programming role. Fascinating!) And last week also saw the start of the second season of Invisibilia, NPR’s record-breaking podcast that reportedly broke 10 million downloads within its first four weeks of launching last year.

Balance that out however you’d like.

More on Branded Podcasts. Gamerman’s Garrison Keillor article wasn’t the Wall Street Journal’s only piece on pods last week. One of the paper’s media reporters, Steven Perlberg, pubbed an update on the trend of brand-sponsored podcasts following the launch of eBay’s “Open for Business,” the first podcast put out by Gimlet Creative, that company’s branded podcast unit.

The juiciest tidbit from that article does not have to do with Gimlet, however. It has to do to with its counterpart over at Panoply. From Perlberg’s article:

The ruling metric of the podcast industry is the “unique download” of an episode. Podcasters are often unclear on how many actually listen after downloading an episode, how long they listened and their demographic makeup.

To deal with that issue, Panoply created landing webpages for each podcast, which it distributes across its social channels and buys ads on places like Facebook. Mr. Hernandez said Panoply guarantees marketers a certain amount of engagement on those webpages, as opposed to being able to guarantee a certain number of listeners.

That’s certainly an interesting way to handle the metrics issue. At the end of the day, brand advertising effectiveness is grounded in however brands can be convinced that their making an impression over their target demographics. Panoply, then, has an advantage here, given that it has control over a platform through which they have the potential to gain some control over the way brands have conversation about advertising efficacy — through the development of new ad measurement features, through potentially partnering with third party measurement arbiters, and so on.

Also relevant here is the following detail from the previously mentioned Bloomberg profile of Panoply from a few items up:

At the low end, Panoply charges a brand $150,000 to produce and promote a podcast. The biggest productions reach into the seven digits.

Seven digits, eh?

WNYC Interns get fair wage assurances. But will the station follow through? A few weeks ago, I wrote about a petition initiative that’s been floating about urging New York Public Radio to pay its interns more than the $12 a day stipend they currently get. It looks like the initiative is making some headway.

Mickey Capper, the freelance radio producer who headed up the petition effort, wrote me in an email:

Jennifer Houlihan Roussel [head of the station’s comms team] confirmed that NYPR would start paying interns in fiscal year 2017..  Exact wage tbd and most details tbd, but she said that all internships would be paid and they’re currently working on it. It seems Brenda Williams-Butts has been championing this and spearheading it on the inside and deserves oodles of credit.

Williams-Butts, by the way, is NYPL’s VP of Recruitment, Diversity, and Inclusion. I asked Capper if he thinks whether the organization will follow through. He seemed optimistic. “I believe WNYC will follow through as they’ve been very careful to commit to anything beyond vague statements of intention up to this point,” Capper wrote back.

I’ll be keeping a close eye on this. And speaking of WNYC…

Werk It, Part Two. The station held the second edition of its annual women in podcasting festival, “Werk It,” late last week. The three day long event, which took place in WNYC’s Greene Space, featured a stellar schedule of panels and presentation from some truly remarkable talent and operators, including PRX’s Julie Shapiro, Another Round’s Tracy Clayton, NPR’s Kelly McEvers, and Radiolab’s Molly Webster, among many, many others. If you didn’t get to attend, don’t worry! You can check out a recording of the festival on its website.

That List. Collisions Media, the nascent podcasting arm of Connecticut-based radio marketing company CRN International, sparked controversy last week when it published one of the “most influential people” lists for the podcast industry which included only two women and only two people of color (I’m one of those two, and really, at least 50 other women and people of color should’ve been on that list before me). The company has since taken down the list following significant online pushback, later following up with an apology.

There’s a lot baked into this incident: that the visibility of women as principals in the podcast space still isn’t a given despite the fact that the professionalizing thread of the industry is substantially built on the strength of women as talent and operators (this is unambiguous); that this is very much a reflection on the lack of diversity among leadership teams in podcast companies, and in the people that podcast companies choose as public representatives; that the community is moved to push back against a small and largely inconsequential podcast entity, and rightly so, as the industry’s narrative is still so underdeveloped and malleable and largely known to the mainstream, so even small things like this count. When a world is this small, everything counts.

I generally hold a distaste for “most influential people” lists. They often strike me frustratingly hagiographic, myopic, and reductive — painfully uninterested in the realities of how many people and how much it takes to simply do anything. Which is to say, I find them distasteful largely because the spirit that informs such enterprises will never quite be done justice; such lists are intents to honor individuals, but its political nature — which is inherent despite its pageantry — ultimately dishonors the context around those individuals. To put it simply: it’s impossible to make a list that’ll properly do right by the community.

Shortly before Collisions took down its list, the Washington Post’s Alex Laughlin published a counter-list of her own: “The 22 Most Influential Women in Podcasting,” and even that contained a slight contentious choice: it considered Pineapple Street Media’s Jenna Weiss-Berman as the only female owner of a podcasting company. In the comments section, some folks have pointed to Mignon Fogarty, who started the Quick and Dirty Tips network, as an example to the contrary, while others debated the nature of what it means to exert “influence.”

But, thinking through this, the counterargument would be that such lists are nonetheless elements that facilitate the industry’s identity-building. One could argue that the story of the industry is a battlefield that should constantly engage in a process of negotiation anchored in persistent dissatisfaction, because we should never let such collective narratives ossify. When we stop iterating on the stories we tell about ourselves, our worlds, and our communities, we stop trying.

The fact that I’m rambling here should indicate to you that these are nothing more than half-baked ideas at this point, and that I don’t really know how to cap off this item. Which is why I’ll cut it abruptly here. Throw me your thoughts, I’m always listening.

Meanwhile, on the West Coast. PodcastOne has named Jim Berk as the company’s new CEO, according to the Wall Street Journal, replacing founder Norm Pattiz in the position. Pattiz, who also has the distinction of founding American radio network Westwood One, will retain his title as the company’s executive chairman.

Bites:

  • Be sure not to miss this interview with EW Scripps’ Chief Digital Officer Adam Symson for some insight into how the corporation views podcasting and how it may further its investments in the space in the months to come. (Nieman Lab)

  • Curious about public benefit corporations, the corporate structure of choice for This American Life and RadioPublic? This recent Current column is a pretty good overview. (Current)

  • WBUR is piloting a new, fascinating podcast experiment: “The Magic Pill,” a 21-day health podcast challenge with each day featuring 10-minute episodes of “new science, big ideas, human stories, quick tips.” The challenge starts September 1, but the pilot episode’s out now. (WBUR)

  • The Amazon Echo slides its tentacles into local news distribution. (Information Week)

  • “’The British Serial’: Podcast on mysterious murder of Daniel Morgan tops (the UK’s) iTunes chart.” (Evening Standard)